Posted by
Sue on Sunday, February 25, 2007 8:46:55 PM
A post by Seraphic Secret (http://www.seraphicpress.com/) offered insight and the dialogue between myself and another poster did also. It is important to dialogue when you can with reasonable people, lots can be learned and ideas exchanged.
Here is the title of the post, read it all on Robert's site:February 20, 2007
Wisdom from John Edwards, Democrat
"Perhaps the greatest short-term threat to world peace is the possibility that Israel would bomb Iran's nuclear facilities"
— John Edwards, Democratic Presidential hopeful.
Here was my post after reading Robert:02/23/07
I have had a question popping into my mind for years. Very recently, it
has played a drum in my head: why are the majority of American Jews so
leftist? Of all the peoples on earth and the history of the past 5,000
years, the Jews should know a thing or two. Yet they support the Left
which has become, in the past twenty-five years, a tinfoil hatted group
of leftist loons? Why? I mean no disrespect, just trying to find an
answer and cannot.
Here is Jake's response:
Sharinlite:
I'd like to field this one if I may... even though I consider myself
a liberal, I've come to realize in recent years that my liberalism is a
little more self-defined. Thus, I often vote for Republicans and some
independents, but not quite as often as Democrats. I usually go 60-40
Democratic.
Anyway, as Robert has posted many times before, a lot of American
Jews... well probably the majority... are left wingers because their
parents were, and the their grandparents were before them. In defense
of those earlier generations, there was a time in America when the
words "right wing" were basically synonymous with "anti-semitic." That
hasn't been true for a very long time, but traditions die hard.
And then there's the fact that the leading labor and
quasi-to-full-blown socialist leaders in this country at one time were
all Jews. Eugene V. Debbs being the most famous, but even Samuel
Gompers was a Jew, (I believe he converted). Even though Jews mostly
prospered and gravitated into the world of management, again old
traditions die hard, and it was hard to leave the party of the unions.
But those answers are a little to easy to explain the enduring
devotion to the party. I think a third thing is at play that much more
dangerous than devotion to old and outdated traditions. Some Jews, in
fact I would argue the overwhelming majority of prominent Jews, have
decided that we as a people have suffered over the centuries because of
the nationalism and religious beliefs of others. In other words, it
wasn't the evil of the Nazis that killed us, but the nationalist fervor
of Nazism that did us in. And it wasn't/isn't the evil of certain
Christians or Muslims who massacred us over the centuries, but the
religious fervor that indoctrinated them.
So, they've decided that we Jews must show the world just how
bad/dangerous religious fervor and nationalism can be. Even, (or
especially), if that means criticizing our own religious Jews and Jews
who they deem to be overly Zionistic. Too bad that religious devotion
and Zionism are what will keep Judaism alive in the future... the only
things. In short, these people think they can save Judaism by
destroying it. It's like that Vietnam-era quote about destroying the
village so we could save it.
And so the uber patriotism of the right wing and its tendency to be
more religious disgusts this new crop of Jews. They think it's childish
at best and dangerous at worst. They are wrong. If the 20th century has
taught us anything, it should be a lesson that 1) there is evil and 2)
it can come from anywhere.
And so, while I consider myself liberal and admit I am not religious
I try to stay fair and honest by 1) respecting religious and
non-religious people equally as long as they are GOOD people and 2) not
giving anyone any undeserved credit either.
It's a long answer, but one to ponder. The good news for right
wingers and the bad news for the liberals is that the GOP has nothing
but upside and the left has nothing but downside when it comes to the
U.S. vote. If the Dems can get 80%+ of the Jewish vote and STILL not
win a presidential election, then the GOP only needs to chip off a
percentage point or two every election cycle to make a huge impact.
Meanwhile the Dems have much more to protect and a lot more to lose.
And I suppose that's good for democracy.
Posted by: Jake at February 23, 2007 02:14 PM
My first response to Jake:
Dear Jake:
When one tries to express oneself or get to the truth of a matter,
length is not important, quality of content is what is important. I
understand what you are saying and have thought of it also, too many
times to count. But,
I am an Agnostic, although by scientist brother insists that I am an
atheist...does it matter? No. However, your answer doesn't explain the
past 4,750 years? Parents, grandparents? At some point each of us must
mature, become adult and make our own choices. I did. Born a Catholic
(is there any other?), switched to lite Catholic or Episcopalian and
then finally onto a search for my own philosophy, which I have. I
clearly see what my parents did or didn't teach and have gone through
sufficient "therapy" a little outside but mostly from decades of
reading, listening and watching. I know me, the why of what I
experienced throughout my life making me the person I am today. I have
learned not to be rigid, parochial or dogmatic. I've learned to listen
and read not only what people "think" to say or write, but to watch the
structure and lexicon. That gives me the ability to "hear" the feelings
of the writer or speaker. But I live by a creed that is probably as old
as the hills: I love myself first because without love, hate is easy. I
love my family, country and fellowman when they behave decently,
honestly, fairly and truthfully. Otherwise, I don't waste my time. At
my age, I've learned there is simply not enough time not to be a human
being instead of simply a homo sapien. Thank you for the
"conversation", it is rare indeed.
Posted by: sharinlite at February 23, 2007 03:39 PM
My follow up post to Jake and the Seraphic Secret blog:
This morning, Sunday, February 25, on the Biography Channel I watched
an hour on the Prophets of Judaism.
I came away with what I think may be somewhat of an answer to my own
question.
I don't know very much about Judaism, but what I watched gave
me a thread to add to my thinking: ancient archaic memories.
It seems to be that one of the reason Jews have been so despised for
thousands of years, may have to do with the establishment of laws for
human behavior, the Ten Commandments. God had always tried to get "his
people" to listen, they would not. Therefore, he put it in "concrete"
through Moses.
Then came the prophet Isaiah. He separated royalty from
priests, if I understand correctly. He was followed by Jeremiah and his
admonition to "obey or be ostracized and destroyed" (8:18)...he was the
last "political" prophet. Ezekiel followed. The word of God was
within..." (2:3) and then he laid down the "philosophy" that I believe
is the mainstay of Western thought (1:17).
He was, apparently, the last
of the true prophets.
Would you not agree that to separate royalty from priests caused
discontent? And, the rabbi's were to be "teachers" reminding the
"people" of the laws that needed to be followed in order to live a
righteous life, the basis of which was to follow God's Commandments.
What the rabbis actually evolved was a long litany of laws in an
attempt to control every hour of daily lives of the "people".
In
addition, was it not the Jews that brought forth the concept of one god?
That must have caused havoc throughout the known world. And, is it not
that so much of the prophecies spoken came to pass for and against the
Jews, also a point of contention for others as well as the
"people".
What I have always believed is that the species, homo sapien, has been
on the path of evolution to human beings. But the road is hard and
pleasure, power and material things often are more important. The
lesson, I guess, is that if you put "god", who is within, first, and
follow him truly, then a good life may be possible. We are today where
we are because we, the people, still do not listen in sufficient
numbers to make it real.
And, more importantly, there will also be a
segment of the world's population who simply do not want to hear,and
those that never will. We are caught up in this conundrum again, only
this time the technology may do us all in.
I would also like your permission to use your post above as an
inclusion in my blog. I will email
this site for permission also. The owner may give you my email for this
purpose. Thank you.
Posted by sharinlite at February 25, 2007 10:59 AM
I have permission.
Only in understanding the past, in context, can we navigate through the treacherous waters we are in today. Only this morning a "young" college student opined in the local paper that we should "talk" to the Iranians. It is a bit naive and he can be pardoned for his "inexperience in life". I wanted to ask him "how do you know we have not and are not talking to the Iranians?"
Has talking done any good with Kim in North Korea, Mugabe or did it help with Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao or Ho Chi Minh? Yes, by all means talk. But at some point talking is useless. Is war the answer, perhaps not. You would need to ask the people in drug and crime infested neighborhoods or the starving in Darfur or the mutilated in Rhawanda if fighting to right terrible wrongs is what they would want us do to when no one seems to be able to "talk" despots out of their desire for power, money and material things. Talk, indeed!